Timber Titan Zane Peterson: From High School to Forestry Phenom

VO:

Some of the most epic things ever accomplished began with the phrase, "Hold my beer and watch this." So chill those ice cubes, pop that cork or crack open that can, because we're about to share an amazing story. Welcome to the Forward Drinking Podcast. Here's your host, John Hutchings.

John Hutchings:

Welcome back to the Forward Drinking Podcast. I'm your host, John Hutchings. I've been holding my breath for a while to have our next guest on the show and it's finally come to fruition. Zane Peterson could best be described as a young phenom when it comes to entrepreneurship. When Nelly wrapped in his song, EI, Drop 'Em Out of High School Straight Into the Pros, he could have been rapping about Zane. Young and hungry, Zane created a forestry business just out of high school, and since then, has built an empire in the timber industry in the last eight years. His story is as inspiring as it is educational, so grab a beverage and tune in. Zane, welcome to the show.

Zane Peterson:

Yeah, thanks John for having me.

John Hutchings:

I've been stoked on this one for a very long time. I'm excited. What are we drinking today?

Zane Peterson:

Drinking ice-cold, Dr. Pepper.

John Hutchings:

I love it. So my wife is going to laugh when she hears this. She's actually going to be like, "why did you do this?" But I love the movie, Forrest Gump, and I use this saying all the time, it drives her crazy, where he goes to the White House and he's like, "The best part about going to the White House is all the free drinks. I musta drank me 15 Dr. Pepper's." And it falls with the, "I have to pee." But anyhow, yeah, let's get into it. And by the way, this was my favorite soda when I was a kid, so cheers.

Zane Peterson:

Pretty good.

John Hutchings:

All right, dude. Tell us about growing up.

Zane Peterson:

Yeah, so grew up right here in West Redding. Just typical small town kid. I lived in Redding, which is the big city of Northern California, right?

John Hutchings:

Oh yeah.

Zane Peterson:

Loved playing baseball and hunting a lot. Just go duck hunting with my dad so much. It was a blast growing up and just got to be outside a lot and enjoy what the north state had to offer.

John Hutchings:

Absolutely. And for me personally, same thing. I mean, I can't imagine growing up in a big city where I didn't have the opportunity to go outside and run around on my bare feet and ride dirt bikes and explore and climb trees and do all that, which is super cool. So within Redding, where did you go to school?

Zane Peterson:

Yeah, so I went to a small charter school growing up, and then high school I homeschooled and then I played baseball through American Christian. So I got to go to school a couple days a week, but then play baseball and do all that stuff. So my whole life through high school wasn't totally consumed with school, which was definitely different, but I still got the social aspect and got to hang out with people.

John Hutchings:

Absolutely. Yeah, it would've been a bummer for me growing up not to have been able to play high school sports, especially, I kind of think that kids that grow up involved in team sports and stuff, it's obviously really good about working in a team and leadership stuff. But I have to imagine though, that's pretty awesome with the homeschooling and the charter stuff that you were doing outside, that had to play a role in your being out in nature and just your love for the woods and all that stuff.

Zane Peterson:

Oh, absolutely, it did, and it allowed me to go spend a lot of time with different family members and that were in business for themselves. I mean, my whole family is consumed with entrepreneurs, which is pretty cool to grow up around that. But I got to go with my grandpa to different power plants and different stuff and my uncles to sawmills, and I got to experience things that someone in their teenage years probably wouldn't get to if they were in school every day.

John Hutchings:

Absolutely.

Zane Peterson:

That's pretty cool.

John Hutchings:

So was your mom and dad, did they have an entrepreneurial background?

Zane Peterson:

Yeah, so my mom owns a tech business that processes log scale when it gets to a mill. So she has a computer program that basically they measure all the logs and then creates the reports that we get paid off of actually when we deliver the logs to the mills. And then my dad and his family had owned a printing company in Redding for super long time. And then just recently my dad, quasi retired and went to work for me about five years ago.

John Hutchings:

Dad working for son, that's awesome.

Zane Peterson:

Oh, it's been so cool.

John Hutchings:

Yeah, after my dad retired from teaching, actually, he spent quite a few years working for us back when we were in Bernie in the airplane hangar, helping us do bottling and canning and all the really unfun stuff in the brewery. But it was fun being able to work together and both of us be able to see this little thing we're working on. Man, number one, I hope it makes it, but number two, at least you're doing it with somebody like your dad or something like that. It's kind of cool.

Zane Peterson:

Yeah, I tell people all the time that if nothing else comes out of my business, then me getting to work with my dad in the later part of his life, that'll be worth it. It's not the easiest thing in the world, but it's super fun and it's just his advice being a business owner for his whole life, and with my mom as well, it's like, "Man, it's been nice to have a sounding board."

John Hutchings:

Absolutely. So was there a time growing up within school, I mean obviously you were exposed to entrepreneurship with your mom, your dad, your grandfather working in timber stuff, but was there a time though that actually locked in you where you're like, "I think I want to go into doing something where I create it myself," rather than just the job path where you're like, "No, I think I want to dip my toe into entrepreneurship."

Zane Peterson:

Yeah, I think it's hard not to when I grew up in that environment. And I don't think all the dots really connected until I was in junior college. I hated school growing up, and so I got through high school and then I went to Shasta College and I started taking just regular business classes and oh man, it was terrible. I hated it. I did not do well at all. And then I started taking ag business classes and then I really started to learn some stuff and really enjoyed it. And I think at that point I was kind of like, "Well, I mean I actually probably could do this for myself or do something." And so at that point, I think really '19, '20, right in there, I was like, "Oh, maybe I should start looking at something on my own."

John Hutchings:

So what was that first thing that you dove into?

Zane Peterson:

Yeah, so I was working for a sawmill at the time, a small sawmill buying logs, and they were making fence posts. And so I met all these loggers all around the north state and really saw there was a big need. They're all at retirement age and just didn't really have a succession plan. And so the first thing, I was doing that and working for those guys and then just looking for opportunities and ended up coming out with, there was some legislation that forced power plants to purchase wood chips from high hazard fuel areas, right? And so communities, places that were at very high risk of burning down.

And so I figured out how to certify that chip and find those jobs. And so all these loggers that I'd met through doing my full-time job at that time, I was like, "Hey, you want to come moonlight and do some jobs over here for me?" And so I started brokering chips basically and kind of filling the need that other loggers that chipped, they needed trucks or they needed cutting machines to cut small trees that they didn't want to pull them away from their logging sides. So I started brokering chips and doing that, and that's where I really first started my own thing.

John Hutchings:

That's brilliant. I read a lot of self-help books and then a lot of things that were like, how do you start your own business? What's something you could do to look into even trying to start your own business? And I can't remember where I picked up this Okie term that is the, being the connector between the need 'um's and the got 'em's, and I mean, it's one of the most brilliant ways to start a business. We didn't really look at that here with Fall River Brewing, obviously. It wasn't like there was a need for craft beer, there was plenty of that already. But when you actually are able to grab onto something that is truly a, we have a need that's not being met, I mean, that's where you grab a hold of something that's just completely, could be just on fire and explosive growth. So absolutely amazing for you to have the forethought to be able to freaking see that.

And especially too, because I remember exactly what you're talking about with the biomass legislation that came out, which you think about it with some of these old timers that have been doing this business for a long time, they're not wired to look at stuff like that because the little I know about the timber industry, and you can allude to this a little bit more, the chipping portion of it is the part that you're kind of forced to do when you're leaving. You don't really want to because that's not really where the money's at. Is that correct?

Zane Peterson:

Yeah, that's absolutely right. It's always been a real pain point for loggers. I mean, chippers are super expensive. They burn a lot of fuel, they're high maintenance, and it's a very low value product. We're making electricity with it. We still have to deliver that electricity down the line at a reasonable rate that we would want to pay at home. So there's no value in a wood chip. So you really had to look at it differently and say, "Okay, how can we take this and really put the right tools to make it the most efficient as possible and find other funding sources to help get those projects done?"

And so I just got to look at it. I was a naive kid, so I got to look at it from a very fresh perspective. And all these loggers who had for their entire life hated chipping because every time they start the chipper up, they lose money. I got to look at it with a new opportunity and be naive. And I think if I didn't have that little knowledge and I didn't know the past, I was like, "Oh, that'll be fine. I'll figure it out." Well, it was fine. It still is fine, but it's been definitely a blip on the history timeline of when chipping was good. And so we've figured it out, but it definitely was not the normal thing to do.

John Hutchings:

Sure. It was completely outside of the box, which is brilliant. So walk me through then, you got into brokering, you were roughly about how old when you started brokering those chips?

Zane Peterson:

Yeah, about 20, somewhere in there, right, 20, 21.

John Hutchings:

20, 21, okay. So where did you go from brokering then? What was your next move?

Zane Peterson:

Yeah, so we ran that business for a couple years under the same umbrella and built the relationship with the power plants and started really getting a lot more trucks and helping these other loggers out and make their jobs easier by us taking on that portion for them. So a couple years down the line, a really unique opportunity came about, and the power plant, Anderson, was out of fuel in the wintertime. And so I had bought these timber sales from the forest service that were total junk, and they had no saw logs in them, nothing that was making quality lumber, so we needed to chip them. Well, with that power plant being out of fuel in the wintertime, they ended up buying logs from me. So we hauled logs into their yard and then chipped them. And it was very unique circumstance that I'll probably never see again in my life, but we were hauling logs from our sales in and chipping them right there in the yard.

And so we did that for a few months with subcontractors, and then I ended up buying a loader and a chipper and started chipping it throughout the winter and just saving up some money and then bought a skidder and just take it one bite at a time there that first spring. And then eventually we chipped all the logs in the yard and it's like the sun's shining, so we had to go to the woods and go do something. That's when my first job was in Shingletown, and we went up there and chipped some stuff and I don't know how we made it, but we muddled through and figured it out.

John Hutchings:

Absolutely. Wing and a prayer like we all do.

Zane Peterson:

Oh yeah.

John Hutchings:

It makes the story that much more awesome. So walk me through then and I think a lot of people when they hear these types of stories, Zane, and I think one of the most incredible parts of it. Obviously, there's the resiliency of getting through how hard that is that I think those of us who have done it can appreciate it, but two, being the person to be looking at the right place in the right time, that has to time. You found something, you mentioned you were lucky that it happened, that you'll probably never see that again. That power plant was needing that fuel at that time that you were able to supply it, but you were looking at the right time, which makes it awesome.

And then the final caveat to that is, what a lot of people I know for me personally, always struggled with, I found this great thing and I have this great opportunity, how do I get the funding? It sounds like from your brokering, obviously you had some cash there, but you went from this portion of your business, you started to grow pretty rapidly. So how did you get the funding to be able to support that type of growth and what did you do?

Zane Peterson:

Yeah, so what really helped me was having that two years of experience brokering the chip. So I had a business and I was just making a dollar on top of everything, so it really wasn't making a lot of money at all. But we had some history and I had the contracts, so I could deliver the product if I produced it. So I ended up going to Farm Credit here in Northern California, and they have a special program for young beginning farmers. And because I had a little bit of history and then they are incentivized to loan to new young agriculture businesses, we fit right into that. And they were able to give us the first couple of loans on equipment. And without that, no other bank would even talk to me at that point. So without that program, I don't think I would be here.

John Hutchings:

Yeah, well, it plays that role. I mean that's the whole reason why they have those programs and especially too, what's awesome about, because I didn't even know about the program that you just shared, which is great. I'm going to have to keep tabs on that one. See, I'm learning from this just as much as hopefully our audience is. But in the brewing industry, obviously we still fall under ag. That's a fantastic resource for us to look into.

But I'm thrilled to know that there are things out there for that because as you and I both know, these industries that are here, the ag industry in terms of farming and ranching, the timber industry, sadly to say, they're kind of dying industries. Not because they're dying right now with the people that are doing it, but because they're not good, they're dying because we don't have a younger generation of people that are hungry to want to do it. And being able to support that, obviously through funding and stuff to help younger people get into it is phenomenal. So again, another great thing that you went out and figured that out. So from there, tell us about your next moves in business.

Zane Peterson:

Yeah, so it's been a wild ride since then and made plenty of mistakes. We kind of took off from there and just ran that one chipping crew for a couple of years. And we were doing service work projects. So we would go in and take a thousand acre block of land surrounding a community and we'd thin trees out so they can grow faster, healthier, and take in more water and all that stuff. And so we did that for a couple of years and we're doing a bunch of community projects and just trying to find where we fit in because that was the biggest thing is I had these relationships, all these loggers, and I didn't want to compete head-to-head with them. I wanted to fill a niche that no one else was doing. So we just looked for the jobs that no one else wanted to do and continue to take those on.

And a couple years down the road, it was, well there's a big need for loggers. We need people that are producing logs for the sawmills and not just chips and logs and chips can have an inverse relationship. So when the log prices are really high, the chip market's really down because the mills are producing more. So if I have a chipping side and a logging side, in theory, that equipment is really interchangeable. So I could put one, we could do all logging or all chipping when things are good or bad. In theory, it works out that way, but in real life it doesn't always.

And so we added a logging side and kept on taking on more work and just getting the reputation of taking on the jobs that no one else wants. And we've kind of fulfilled the niche in the industry in that and now we run a chipping side and two logging sides and kind of a service work crew. So we have four crews out there doing different stuff and just tried to really have a diverse business that takes on anything and everything to keep our guys busy and have year round work, which is really super important for this next generation.

John Hutchings:

Absolutely. And so one thing I want to focus on now, is your fourth arm of your business, so that's your service side. Now does that have to do with specialty work looking into say like mastication specialized fuel reductions and stuff that has to relate to, and I'm going to use a trigger word here that some people may or may not like, but discussing climate change, discussing these catastrophic forest fires. I mean, there's a lot of debate over that and I'm probably might be pissing some people off here. I have very strong opinions on it that I'll keep to myself. We might dabble on that a little bit, but is that your fourth arm of your business though, is the service side for fuel reductions?

Zane Peterson:

Absolutely, yep. So that's what we're working on. We're doing hazard tree projects that on public lands that after these fires go through, you have to shut down the forest because there's so much dead timber that could fall on roads and different things. So trying to keep public land open, really trying to do a ton of fuel reduction work. When a fire does come in our communities, they have a chance to fight it and it can get down on the ground and not be a ripping ground fire. So that's really what we're focusing on, doing a bunch of mastication work, hand crew work, spraying all the different stuff that is associated with that, just trying to make our communities more resilient and have a fighting chance when something does happen.

John Hutchings:

Absolutely. And that's one that I obviously don't have the experience that you have. I mean, you're in the woods every day. And that's one thing, I'm going to get on my soapbox here a little bit, but one thing that I really urge people that have a strong opinion on, let's say that the climate change debate or have a strong opinion on these catastrophic forest fires and stuff, I really urge people, go find somebody that works in the timber industry, go find a Zane Peterson, go find people that work at SPI and go listen to them tell you about what's happening with that forest. Because I think a lot of the thought processes is that you guys are in there to just rape and pillage the forest so you can make money. And I think that the main misunderstanding for that is that forest is your guys' baby.

I mean that thing is your bread and butter. The resilience of that forest is what's going to keep you guys being able to keep your businesses going year after year. And because of that, and I know you got great experience in this because of the fourth arm of your business, can you give us a little bit of a breakdown on what it is, why you do that with your mastication side of the business and you're contracted through US Forest Service and a lot of these places as well as private entities to go in and do these fuels reductions because of what a role it plays in whether people want to call it combating climate change, whether they believe it helps or not. But you guys actually see it on a day-to-day basis. You know what I will call the truth of what really is happening and what works. Can you allude to that?

Zane Peterson:

Yeah, absolutely. Well, I think the first thing to remember is the climate's always changing, right?

John Hutchings:

Right.

Zane Peterson:

I mean, that's just what it does. We all change and grow and different. What's cool is not even just our service works out of the business, but our whole business gets to take care of the forest, right? So part of taking care of it is managing it and managing it with equipment. It looks violent when it's happening, but when we thin the forest, it creates multi products. So we need to cut saw logs, medium-sized trees that need to go to the mills to make lumber. We need to chip the small trees, the 3 to 10 inch and all the tops and utilize that, and then we need to mow the brush so that way it stays down and can be managed for the future.

So what's cool is our business is every step of it, it is improving the health of the forest. We always are kind of, underlying company motto is we're making the forest better one tree at a time. And I truly feel that way. I mean, it's pretty neat because all my guys, they understand why we're out there. They understand that the effect that they get to make on the world every day, I mean they are improving a little bit of the world by treating those acres or getting those logs to the sawmill. I think that's what's really neat about it is it's a job that has real results and something that you can be proud of to take home.

John Hutchings:

Absolutely. And I think that's a huge thing for these upcoming generations to see something that you could see that you're a part of something, almost a movement. I know reading a lot of books about managing younger folks, millennials and Xennials and stuff, even though I technically still fall on the edge of a millennial, my Vistage group, one of the guys in the group said, "You're the biggest baby booming millennial I've ever met. You act like a 60-year-old." But I agree with you 100%.

And I have a third grader's brain when it comes to how I process and learn things. And I always have a certain spot where I bow hunt and it's wild, the road is bisected, private, it's SPI on the left and it's USFS on the right. And every year I go out here and I look at it and I just shake my head and I go, "God, I wish I could just take people and show them this," because the SPI on the left burned in 2014 in the Isler fire and it's beautiful. It's back, it's green, tall trees, low brush.

The right hand side of the road was not managed by USFS, which I know they're doing that stuff now. But at that time, and it still looks like the face of the moon 10 years later, it's like you've got just white, everything's white, chalky, nothing growing back. It's wild. So you guys playing a role in that and you being forward-thinking enough to see what that was going to play a role in our future and being able to create a business out of it is just amazing. We're going to take a short break right here and we're going to grab ourselves some more Dr. Peppers, but we'll be back in a little bit. Stay tuned.

VO2:

Inspired by the unspoiled nature of the Fall River Valley, our craft beer community is always open to adventure. It's the spirit of innovation and exploration that move us forward. We push through tough times, step beyond our boundaries and expand our horizons at every opportunity. Our beers have scaled mountains, floated downstream, been fireside, and a part of all the little moments that make up a life well lived. From small beginnings to big ideas. It's our passion for craft beer and the community that we've created, to keep the heart of Fall River well, brewing.

Whether it's the crack of a can, the rush of a tap, or the clink of a glass, these are the sounds that pull us forward toward connection, connecting to nature, connecting to friends, and connecting the memories you make with Fall River Beers. Fall River Brewing Company is proud to sponsor the Forward Drinking podcast. We hope these stories motivate you to think creatively, take risk, and put a plan into motion. Fall River Brewing Company, Redding, California. Please enjoy responsibly.

John Hutchings:

All right, welcome back. I got a new Dr. Pepper here. It's going to make me burp, so we'll climb down off of our enviro soap boxes, we'll get back into business. So Zane, we kind of busted through this pretty quickly, and part of it is because you've taken something that started as brokering chips. That was literally something you were able to do with very little to no capital, very little to no equipment, nothing but your brain, and probably a cell phone and a whole lot of brawn and grit, which makes me so proud of you. Back it up and give us the timeline from the chipping business and how old you were all the way to where you are now.

Zane Peterson:

Yeah, so we started brokering chips there in 2016, and about year and a half, two years into that, started buying equipment and then really a year into it and it's like, "Oh man, maybe we need some more equipment." I was young, so I was like, "Oh, I love logging equipment, let's buy some more, but that's no big deal." And so had a little bit of success and just started buying as much logging equipment as I could for a couple years there, and it got super overwhelming. So five years into my business, quite a bit in debt, making the payments, but just super scared. Every time a raindrop hit the ground, I'd be terrified, "Oh no, we're not going to be able to work tomorrow." And then really in 2018 to 2020, all the fires and saw the devastation, our business really became the center of the public eye.

Like, "Oh wow, these guys can do something about this devastation." So we really strapped in right there and said, "Okay, we need to get serious about this and figure out how we're going to make a real a hundred-year business out of this." And so we started to refine our technique and get better. And I tried to learn from everyone that would possibly talk to me. I just wanted to soak it up and all these loggers, they've done it for a long time before me. And so man, if I can just learn from them, if I don't make the same mistakes as them, I'll be a lot better off. So I want to make new mistakes. So I just started trying to go and visit people and learn, and so many people helped me, which was really cool. That's a super neat thing about farming and logging and small businesses like, man, people actually really want to help each other.

And from there, got some great people on our team and really stepped it up. And then probably 2021 it's, well starting to get some traction here. And building the mills, saw that I wasn't going to go away. I wasn't just a flash in a pan and I wanted to be in this industry. And so I started working for the sawmills around and delivering logs to them. And then a couple years down the road, we're becoming one of their bigger producers and really proud of that fact is they can call us and they can count on us to deliver what we're supposed to every year. And that has been really something that's paid dividends for us is, the power plant knows we're going to produce what they ask of us, and the mills know that as well. So we're a real business now and have a lot of really great guys that take it seriously and want to be the best. And so we're on the road, see where it takes us now.

John Hutchings:

Heck yeah. And that whole thing, I mean, we're talking an eight-year span from brokering ships to, I mean, I had to do a little bit of math. I was, count my fingers there. I was like what, 2016? Oh yeah, 2024. 8 years. That's absolutely freaking incredible, especially-

Zane Peterson:

Yeah, especially when you think of logging side, 2.5 to 4 million bucks is sitting there.

John Hutchings:

Absolutely. It's incredible. And from somebody who has done something from a startup like you've done, which nothing like you've done, but I mean similar in that there were startup. I mean, it's absolutely inspiring. So where are we at today? I mean, can you give us a little breakdown on Zane Peterson Timber today? How many employees? You guys work in multiple states? Are you mostly northern California? What's the breakdown?

Zane Peterson:

Yeah, so we work from Sacramento north, mostly in the Eastern Sierras, some in the Coast Cascade Range. And we have about 30 employees, and then we have total subcontract cutters and truckers and all that stuff. We have over 60 people hitting the ground every day.

John Hutchings:

Wow.

Zane Peterson:

Yeah, it's pretty incredible. It's you think about the impact that that has on Northern California from economic, it's like, "Holy smokes." There's $100,000 worth of stuff going out to our communities every day.

John Hutchings:

Every day, yeah.

Zane Peterson:

And so I'm really proud of that fact. I love that a logging business gets to support a rural community. All my guys, they live in Burney, they live in Cottonwood, they live in Anderson, some live in Redding. Man, it's so neat that we get to keep small town America alive.

John Hutchings:

Totally and like you said, it's in areas that are not normal areas to be able to have those kind of jobs. I think that's huge about what you're doing, and it's so important for this type of an industry, because you look at a lot of folks right now feel like their opportunities exist, if they go to the bay. They got to get in tech. You got to be in a big city. You can't have a good job and live in the places that maybe you grew up and want to live because there's supposedly no opportunity there. But especially in this industry, I mean, it's a lot of what's keeping some of these smaller towns alive. If you look like Chester, Westwood, Fall River Mills, obviously another area where I grew up that was really heavily dependent upon the timber industry loggers. And as we've said before, this is an industry that needs younger folks coming into it to keep those alive.

So thank God that you grabbed this and you're not 70 years old right now going, "Who's going to take the reins of this thing?" Still very young. And overall too, with your business, I mean, it was one thing for me when we started this, it was really hard for me to wrap my head around the day that we would be able to say, one, we could provide a place where people could work to retirement. So I remember thinking, for me personally, I was like, I don't have a business until I have that.

Two, I never, ever imagined being able to hire executive level help. And that was another thing that was like, "Oh God, executive level help and I have all these people that are way smarter than me. They're going to realize that I'm not too bright. How's this operation around?" But is there a point when you guys reach in your business where it's like, "Okay, we're going to start putting those things in place. We're going to get this executive level help," because fast-growing businesses, you have to have it. Where are you guys at within your portion of your business on that?

Zane Peterson:

Yeah, absolutely. So that's what's been so cool. I have my dad on board is he has so much experience, and so he's really helped me on connecting with employees and managing them, making sure we're doing the right things. And then, yeah, about, oh, four years ago we transitioned to a controller that has now transitioned to half her job is being a controller and half of her job is being a CFO. And that's really helped me because to have someone else that has a really high level knowledge of financials and where we should be, I have no idea.

And most industries across the country, they have some sort of metrics. You have some sort of expectations of where if you're doing good, this is where you should be. Well, the logging industry, we have no data, no one. The guy driving down the road in his new pickup that's like, "Oh yeah, hey, Bob's doing good." So that's been really challenging. I don't know where we'd be doing good or not, so bringing her on board, and she's been super helpful in teaching me and trying to make me smarter. And so that really leveled up our business from there. And I have confidence in buying that new piece of equipment or not. I know that we're making the right decision from that point. So yeah, it's a huge thing when you can get to that point.

John Hutchings:

Absolutely. Because as we just talked about, you created an executive level position in an area that might not be able to have that, that kept that person from having to go to the Bay Area to have a CFO position. We all know I don't give a shit if you're the business of selling widgets or jacks or whatever. If it's got the title CFO on it, it's not cheap. And it takes a lot of growing to be able to get to those phases. I remember for me, that was one thing that was kind of like, all right, we're getting to that level where we can have some executive help, which is super cool, man. Congratulations on that.

So we're going to jump into one of my favorite parts of the Forward Drinking Podcast, and that's where we get a chance to ask our guests to really drop some knowledge, breathe some life into our listeners, all millions of them. We're going to say there's millions of them today. So to start off with question numero uno, Mr. Zane, you got into this business at a young age, and it's weird for me. I still feel like I'm young, even though I look in the mirror and that makes me realize I'm not young anymore, but you got in this business at a young age and compared to me, you're still pretty young, which is just fricking awesome. And I've said this before to people where I'm like, "I wish I could have gotten started earlier," because I'm like, "Man, if I could have gotten started earlier, I'd had had such a jumpstart."

And two things there, one, I could guarantee you I wouldn't have asked anybody to trust me to do this earlier than I did because I just don't think the maturity is there, which is really awesome that you're at that point. But two, I just don't know that I had the ability to get people to take me serious at that. I had a hard time in my, I think I was 30 or 31 when I started Fall River Brewing. I had a hard time getting people to take me serious then. And yet, you've been not only able to do this with people where you started subcontracting in your early '20s to get very large lumber mills to trust you and to do big business with you. So walk us through, how did you do that?

Zane Peterson:

Yeah, I mean, I look back on it. It's like, "Man, I don't even know how I did that." But I think that building relationships with people and always, no matter what, even when it really sucks, doing what is right and what you say you're going to do, and initially, it probably cost me a little more money. I had to earn their trust. And so if they're willing to take a risk, if they were making a little extra money. And so I was able to figure that, how to get that to them, and just trying to soak up as much as I could while I was around the older generation of loggers and just try to learn from them. And I try to maintain that today as I want to listen more than I talk, which is why I'm excited to be here with you and learn about your business.

I mean, we have something to learn from everybody, and you can take the good things that you learn and take the mistakes that someone else made and just say, "Hey, I'm going to make a new mistake. I'm just not going to make the same one as them." And so I think early on, it cost me some money, and then once they realized I paid my bills and I was trustworthy and I could perform, then it was like, "Okay, well, let's help this kid out." And I'm still earning that trust with the industry for sure. I don't think it's something that you just have one day. It's something that you have to earn every day.

John Hutchings:

Absolutely. Yeah. It's like the old adage, the rent's due and you got to pay it every day, whether it's working out or you name it. Yeah, I think there's probably some other things there that I would just in a little bit of time that we've had time to talk about. I think one thing that is really plaguing our youth these days, and this was just recently on a Joe Rogan podcast. I remember hearing it. It made me think about how to be a better parent for my kids. I mean, as I'm sitting here talking to you about this, it's really hitting home things that I need to remind myself on a daily basis with my kids is being resilient and being tough. I mean, holy crap, what you're doing in your '20s, again, this is going back to when I was talking about the immaturity level.

I remember being in construction, working for somebody else and being so stressed out over things and acting as if somebody was going to die over something that was like something didn't go right on a project, just being a total drama queen about it. And I didn't really have anything tied up in that that was my house or anything that you're going to lose. Whereas you, in your early '20s, doing what you've been doing, have been doing what we talk about with entrepreneurship where you're like, shove the chips in every day. You do the all in, you don't have a choice, right?

Zane Peterson:

There's a reason I don't gamble at the casino.

John Hutchings:

Exactly. And that Joe Rogan podcast talked about the folks these days that are resilient and tough, and I'm not going to say exactly what he said, because Joe cusses a lot, but he said, "They're going to rule the effing world because this world is full of so many weenies and sissies these days." Definitely just the little bit of time that we've been talking, it's just amazing to me now to see somebody that's still out there, just getting after it. Our folks and grandparents and stuff used to do, it was like 18-year-old kids used to go to war. You don't see that anymore. It's just crazy. So another really, I just think that's awesome.

But secondly, and I think you kind of touched on this a little bit, but I know you've got a lot more success principles that you've learned over the time. I mean, what advice would you give young entrepreneurs as well on just success, starting a business obviously, but how to grow and maintain that business and be successful?

Zane Peterson:

I mean, the business is only as good as your people, and so when you build a business, it generally starts out as yourself, right?

John Hutchings:

Yep.

Zane Peterson:

That's how I started. And then we always want to have more, and we want to have a bigger impact, but the people is what gets you there. And I have been so fortunate to the people that were here for a short time, and the people that have been here since the beginning in my business, I have to do my best to take care of them. I'm here to make our industry better, a better place to work, a better place to be more productive. And so as long as the owner of your business, you are trying to improve the current system or improve your employee's life, I think that is the biggest thing, because without them, we're nothing, right?

John Hutchings:

Absolutely. Yeah, surround yourself with people that are smarter than you.

Zane Peterson:

Oh, yeah.

John Hutchings:

I had the hardest time learning that in the beginning. I'm like, "That just sounds weird. That sounds like a good way to get held hostage." People are like, "Oh dude, you don't get it."

Zane Peterson:

Yeah. It's amazing though, I'm not a logger, right? I'm an entrepreneur that had a, I didn't grow up being a logger. My parents weren't first generation, and my guys that worked for me, they've been doing it, some of them are in their mid '40s, '50s, they've been doing it their whole life, and it's like, "Man, why would you want to work for me? I've never been there." It's amazing that when you step back and look at it's like, "Okay, what am I good at? I'm good at building relationships, finding work, knowing, being able to stomach hard decisions, and you know what they're good at. They're good at making logs and getting them to the mill. And when we all are working together towards one common goal, it's like it's amazing what a group of people can get done, all because we want to make it better for each other.

John Hutchings:

Right. Absolutely. Yeah, some of my darkest days here, I mean, I've had some dark ones, but some of the darkest days here were the fear of like, I can't make payroll on Friday. I don't care about me, but if I can't pay my guys, this is going to just absolutely kill me, work for many years for free, just to make sure that that could happen, because they're so important. Obviously we both know you can't stress that enough.

Zane Peterson:

No, it's lots of sleepless nights. And for me, and I know for you, it's like, "Man, I am not thinking about myself staring at that ceiling." So it's definitely, it's a big thing to deal with in life is because you're responsible for them and their family, and that's a tough thing, but it's a beautiful thing when it all works.

John Hutchings:

Absolutely. So what does the future hold for Zane Peterson?

Zane Peterson:

Yeah, I mean, that's a hard question because I still don't know what I want to be when I grow up, right? I'm fortunate to have that thought, but I think we are just going to continue to grow our business in a much slower manner than I did when I first started. Those were some scary times, and I don't want to repeat that. And so we're going to grow the business a little bit as opportunities present themselves and try to fine tune it and make it better for our guys and invest in new equipment that makes life easier for them. And look at diversification as always. I think if your business isn't growing a little bit, it's dying, right?

John Hutchings:

Absolutely.

Zane Peterson:

So we're just going to focus on that. There's a lot of consolidation that's going to happen in our industry moving forward, just as that older generation moves on, and it's a natural thing that I thinks happening all across the country is with these older businesses. So we're just going to see what opportunities present themselves and try to learn how to run a better business and get better every day.

John Hutchings:

Yeah. I'm right there with you, brother. Cool. Well, Zane, you are wise beyond your years. Thank you so much for being here today. I appreciate it. And to everybody listening, thank you for tuning in. If you haven't already, please jump on our social media and make sure you give it a like and a follow and stick around, we'll be recording another one soon. Thank you.

VO:

Thanks for listening to The Forward Drinking Podcast, hosted by John Hutchings. Has this episode motivated you to create your own amazing story, then please subscribe and leave a rating and review on your favorite podcast app. You can also follow the Forward Drinking Podcast on Facebook, Instagram, or TikTok @forwarddrinkingpodcast. Thanks again for listening. Until next time.